In this conversation, Nazneen and Purnima discuss the topic of mental health, particularly focusing on the mental health of men. They explore the societal perception of men as the stronger gender and the problems associated with this thinking. They discuss the importance of overcoming labels and generalizations and taking a flexible approach to understanding the challenges and issues faced by men. They also delve into the emotional, social, cultural, and psychological pressures that men face in today's society. The conversation highlights the need for men to prioritize their own mental health and well-being and challenges the traditional gender roles and expectations placed on them.
Guest's Bio:
Purnima Gupta is the founder of Anahata Mental Health Clinic in Ahmedabad. She is a psychotherapist and trainer with over 20 years of experience.
Takeaways --Men face societal pressures and expectations due to the perception of them as the stronger gender. --Labels and generalizations limit our understanding of men's mental health and the challenges they face. --Men today face emotional, social, cultural, and psychological pressures that require attention and support. --It is important for men to prioritize their own mental health and well-being. --Challenging traditional gender roles and expectations is necessary for creating a more inclusive and supportive society.
Full Interview Transcript:
Nazneen Kachwala (00:00.0)
Hello Pranima, how are you doing?
Purnima (00:04.074)
Hi, Nazneen. I'm great. And how are you doing?
Nazneen Kachwala (00:12.054)
Yeah, I'm fine. I'm fine as well. Thank you. And it's great
to have you for this recording. And I look forward to having this conversation
with you.
Purnima (00:19.274)
I'm equally excited.
Nazneen Kachwala (00:22.188)
Yeah. So Purnima, our topic is a little bit
different from the usual topics that I have discussed so far. We are going to
discuss about the mental health, particularly of men. So the first question
that comes to my mind when I think of this topic is usually men are considered
to be the stronger gender. You know, that's the general notion. Do you think?
Nazneen Kachwala (00:50.988)
that this is right and or do you find a problem with this
thinking and why do you think so?
Purnima (00:59.379)
So first of all, Nazneen, whenever we label something about
anybody, not really men or women in general, but about anyone, for example, if
you label something as sweet, if you label something as nice, then your mind
registers it. And next time when you would meet the person in a different
setup, when the person is also in a different mindset and you are also in a
different mindset,
Purnima (01:29.565)
But your mind would prompt you to look at that person and
only notice those nice things about him because he is registered as a nice
person. So the basic problem is that we judge people, we label them and once
those labels have been picked up, then we take a long time and rather it's next
to an impossible process for most of the people to change those labels.
Purnima (01:58.139)
You know, there's no flexibility. So since the ancient times
when men were performing duties which required physical strength, they got this
label of being strong. People were not cognitively looking at, mental strength
or emotional strength or the social presence. The only thing men got labeled as
strong was due to the work they were doing, the physical strength.
Nazneen Kachwala (02:23.509)
Hmm. Hmm.
Purnima (02:24.483)
And we are
Purnima (02:25.001)
still continuing with that label. We are not ready to change that the scenario has completely gone an upside down to makeover. Men today are performing duties which do not really require physical strength, but rather more emotional regulation. But we haven't been able to look at that side. And today, female
Purnima (02:52.951)
are performing duties which require physical strength.
Purnima (02:58.481)
there is no talk about it. So, think labelling is the major issue behind what we are thinking or talking about today. And if we can get over these labels, I think we would be flexible enough to incorporate and take a 360 -degree look at what a man can do and what issues he or she suffers, not just the men. The women also need the same flexible approach.
Nazneen Kachwala (03:20.28)
Hmm.
Purnima (03:28.784)
No labels. I mean, can we be individual? If I meet you, then
can I just register this thing that, Nazneen has got very good articulation
skills and not generalize it. So one thing is labeling and the second is
generalization. And because you saw 60 % men performing physical work, we
labeled 100 % of the men for the same.
Nazneen Kachwala (03:57.427)
Right. So I think this also means about the overcoming one's
mental filters and biases that we have, you know, that we see in daily walks of
life. So I think the labels come from our own perception of how we see things.
You correct me if I'm wrong, if that is what you meant, right?
Purnima (04:17.744)
See labels come because human mind functions on the
principle of certainty.
Nazneen Kachwala (04:26.477)
Okay.
Purnima (04:27.183)
It seeks assurance in everything. Now, if you look at the
ancient knowledge, the Eastern knowledge specifically, would say, know,
uncertainty is the way of life. We have been told to believe in uncertainty as
the way of life. But human mind is always running after assurances, security,
information, knowledge.
Purnima (04:56.365)
because knowledge is security. And these labels or these
categories that our mind creates, whether it is in terms of labeling someone as
a good person or labeling someone as not so good person, both the categories
are to create a reassurance within our own mind that, now I am sure what is
this person about. And if the person deviates from this category, then I will
be anxious.
Nazneen Kachwala (05:10.563)
Hmm.
Purnima (05:27.352)
then I would be out of my comfort zone, then I would be
disturbed and that is something I am not looking at. So in all possible
meetings that I probably will have with you, I would like you to be in those
categories which I have created in my mind during our first meeting.
Purnima (05:51.327)
And that is also something that creates the relationship
issues in the longer run because people defy those categories.
Purnima (06:01.054)
and we are put into the anxious zones.
Nazneen Kachwala (06:05.194)
Right, it's more about people being into their own comfort
zones and being probably finding it difficult to walk out of their comfort
zones and then you know facing their fears. It's like as you rightly mentioned
you know the the the idea of certainty and uncertainty. We're always scared of
uncertainty so yeah it makes sense. So what what all are in today's time as you
already spoke that the roles of men have widely
Nazneen Kachwala (06:33.666)
change as compared to what there were centuries ago or maybe
perhaps what there were decades ago. So in today's time, if we talk of what are
the various emotional, social, cultural pressures, psychological pressures or
issues which men face.
Purnima (06:54.8)
So let's go step by step. first thing first, I don't think
there is a very clear line or boundary for any gender for any specific role.
Today it is more about acceptance and flexibility. That do I have that
flexibility in myself that I can do whatever comes to me?
Purnima (07:24.638)
We are seeing that people are also living alone completely
by themselves. So that also makes them not dependent on anybody or not
expecting anyone to do their chores or cook for them or clean for them. So if I
have to do everything for myself, then I think the very boundary of what I can
do as a gender is blurred.
Purnima (07:52.219)
I think it's more contextual and circumstantial into what
role can we see a man performing or maybe a woman performing. So that is
something that I very clear that let's not put this into the boundaries that
okay, since you are a man, you have to earn, you have to protect, you have to
provide, you have to take care of your family. No, not really. You do what you
like. You do what
Purnima (08:21.723)
allows you to express your individuality. You do what allows
you to express your unique nature and personality. Because that's also
somewhere connected to this thing called purpose of life. We cannot put people
into existing frames because it kills their individuality. Yes, to a certain
extent, when we are living in a family system, we are supposed to adjust. But
Purnima (08:51.524)
not compromise. I am supposed to adjust because when four
people are living together, of course, everyone has to adjust to accommodate
the rest of the people. But I should be ready to adjust, not to compromise.
Because that frustration of not being able to express my uniqueness, my
individuality, I am going to show somewhere else. Or if I suppress it too much
within.
Purnima (09:21.657)
then it is going to lead to certain other emotional
challenges.
Nazneen Kachwala (09:27.34)
Okay.
Purnima (09:28.56)
So, this is something that I strongly believe when you talk
about roles that men can perform today. And now looking at the emotional,
social, cultural challenges, is that what you meant? The challenges or?
Nazneen Kachwala (09:45.705)
Yeah, the challenges that the men particularly face.
Purnima (09:48.526)
So I think first thing first, the challenge that they face
in terms of emotional development or emotional expression or regulation is that
the other gender is equally rigid in terms of perceiving how a male partner or
a male family member should be. Now if a man...
Purnima (10:15.327)
is okay with crying in front of his family members. The
family members may not be okay with his crying.
Purnima (10:23.658)
And in that particular scenario, it would be equally
difficult for the man to continue his expression. Because if you don't get the
appropriate support when you express yourself, then next time you probably
would stop in your shoes for a moment and then think, should I express myself?
Nazneen Kachwala
(10:23.746)
Right.
Purnima (10:49.622)
We consciously are not snubbing their expression, but our
behaviour, our approach, our response and our acceptance of their emotions is
probably giving them a message that I am not okay with your emotional
expression. It makes me anxious.
Purnima (11:11.191)
Because while you have learnt that it is okay to cry for a
man, I as a woman or I as your family member haven't yet learnt that as a
family member, I need to support both men and women irrespective of gender.
Nazneen Kachwala (11:30.299)
And how can that happen? Because what I see is that, you know, let's say what I make out is that not just men, everyone somewhere is scared of being judged. And sometimes we tend to lose our identity or tend to, for the lack of a better word, we start acting as the other person expects us to be, to act, right? And because we're more or less we're scared of judgment. But how can
Nazneen Kachwala (11:58.606)
Let's say I or any men since we're talking about men here.
They be a little bit like they cannot be afraid of being judged and how can the
family members or the friends have an open outlook of you know looking beyond
the gender roles or the typical conventions which they have put in their minds.
Purnima (12:23.778)
So, Nazneen, I probably would quote a little from the
ancient scriptures or texts or the philosophies here, because to be honest, our
psychology in its current state has yet not really found an answer to this
question, because we are looking at everything in an interpersonal setup.
Purnima (12:51.926)
whether it is emotional expression, whether it is the
response to that expression, whether it is someone's inner thoughts about his
own expression. And I'm using these gender -oriented pronouns only because we
are talking about men. But it applies to everybody. Look at the question. You
are asking me how others can be more sensitized towards accepting
Nazneen Kachwala (13:20.056)
Yeah.
Purnima (13:21.846)
when a man is expressing himself. My thought or my question has always been why everything has to be looked upon in an interpersonal dynamic. So a certain sense of detachment and a certain sense of individuality has to be instilled during the early years of a person. If I am not taught that my expression is my expression.
Purnima (13:53.855)
People should never be responsible to act or respond in a
certain way to my expression. Let me set people free from this expectation that
when I express myself, you are supposed to respond in a certain manner.
Purnima (14:13.258)
But this can only happen when we allow people to be
individuals and not look upon them only as one of the communities.
Purnima (14:29.012)
Because every time you are telling someone that you know the
person is not understanding what I am saying. But why do they need to
understand?
Nazneen Kachwala (14:42.552)
But then how can the conversation, like suppose if the other
person is not understanding what I'm saying, then how can the conversation
further, or how can you have a balance of understanding, or what's the meaning
of communicating if at all there's no understanding when one person is speaking
and the other person is not able to get what the other person is expressing?
Purnima (15:05.96)
I think the response can itself be that, I am sorry I am not
able to understand what you are saying, but I definitely hear you.
Nazneen Kachwala (15:15.706)
Okay.
Purnima (15:17.563)
Understanding is the second part. The first part is, I
present to your speech or am I present to what you saying?
Nazneen Kachwala (15:29.006)
Hmm.
Purnima (15:29.737)
The whole pressure of responding to someone in a certain way
kills the authenticity of the communication. For example, if I cry in front of
you and you are not able to make head and tail of it, why should this be a
pressure for you? No matter how close a friend you are to me.
Nazneen Kachwala (15:38.926)
Okay, yeah.
Purnima (15:54.728)
Can I not set you free from that pressure? Can I just expect
you to sit with me in silence and allow me to express myself? Here, I always
tell my clients also, when they say, you know, my family doesn't understand me,
I always tell them that here is the problem, that you are expressing yourself
with a certain expectation already.
Purnima (16:19.921)
You are not expressing yourself to relieve yourself of all
the pent -up emotions. You are releasing or expressing yourself with an
expectation that the person will understand me. That's the later part of the
story.
Nazneen Kachwala (16:40.616)
Okay, but then why? Yeah, please, please continue.
Purnima (16:45.833)
first part is always a free flowing expression and that free
flowing expression does not demand a response. What it demands is active
empathetic listening. That is
Nazneen Kachwala (17:04.89)
So if there is someone who is listening to me empathetically
or if I'm just expressing myself, what difference does it make to the person
who is expressing himself or herself? Why is expressing so important?
Purnima (17:18.491)
because he's seen, he feels that he's seen, he feels that
he's heard.
Purnima (17:25.937)
You know, trust me, this has immense power. I have witnessed
this in so many sessions and even in my personal life that when I not
responding to anything, I just there for the other person. It has tremendous
healing power.
Nazneen Kachwala (17:45.153)
Okay.
Purnima (17:45.776)
When I even express myself with an expectation that the
other person will understand, I am more focused upon his response and not on my
expression.
Purnima (18:00.346)
And wherever cognitively we get involved in the process of
expression and understanding, the whole emotional connect from the situation is
broken.
Nazneen Kachwala
(18:01.195)
Okay.
Nazneen Kachwala (18:16.726)
You know, many times it happens that there are people who
are bad at expressing. They tend to suppress their feelings. especially because
of the social -cultural setup, we have seen this with men. Like I have
personally seen this with men, that they are not very expressive. They probably
want, because I have brothers, I've lived with my father, my partner.
Nazneen Kachwala (18:42.06)
So usually what I feel is that men, they want you to
understand without words. They want people to understand them with less words.
Yeah, they use very few words and usually it is seen or I could be wrong that
if people around them don't set up or don't come to their expectations, then
they...
Nazneen Kachwala (19:09.592)
tend to become a little bit angry, loose temper. In worst
cases, they also tend to become violent. Why is this? And how can this be
overcome? And how can someone identify that there is actually an underlying
problem when a person is not expressing or suddenly blowing up because he or
she has not expressed anything so far?
Purnima (19:36.123)
So two things here. One, we have restricted expression to
language.
Purnima (19:47.567)
that to verbal language. The nonverbal aspect of the
communication or expression has almost been wiped out.
Purnima (19:58.052)
And it has got its own reasoning because everybody is so
tied up or so occupied in their own worldwide stories that non -verbal
communication is not just being addressed. Now people want that if you have a
problem, come and tell me. Don't expect me to look at your body language, look
at the eye contact, look into your eyes and understand that you are in pain.
Nazneen Kachwala (19:58.252)
Hmm.
Purnima (20:27.555)
or you are troubled. And the second problem that for long,
for centuries now, this word power has been negatively associated with love and
an expression of concern. And in other contexts, the power has been associated
with masculinity.
Purnima (20:52.826)
So, a child growing up in a house where after shouting at
him or after slapping him, his parents tell him, we slapped you because we love
Nazneen Kachwala (21:06.092)
Yeah.
Purnima (21:07.607)
We slapped you because we did not want you to suffer any
negative consequence.
Purnima (21:15.321)
So, the association that the mind is making there is that it
is okay to slap someone who loves you or whom you love.
Purnima (21:28.299)
And men grow up with this association. Because since
childhood, when they slap their friends or when they kick their friends or when
they kick their siblings also, parents always say, it's okay. Bada Bhai, he's
your elder brother, he's your younger brother. It's okay.
Purnima (21:49.674)
And the same thing continues in the adult life also when the
pent -up emotions, you know, let them soak crazy with their inner circle, the
most intimate people, that the only way they can release that pent -up
emotional energy is either by shouting or by raising their hands or by being
physical with them.
Nazneen Kachwala (22:14.669)
Hmm.
Purnima (22:15.458)
So, power and the language being taken as the only mode of
communication, I think these two are the major issues, the core issues.
Nazneen Kachwala
(22:26.635)
Right.
Nazneen Kachwala
(22:29.174)
Okay. And then how can someone identify this problem early
on that maybe there is some buildup problem, mental issue, as you said, because
of x, y, z reasons what we discussed right now, how can someone identify this
and try and address this by himself before approaching a professional person to
help him out with this?
Purnima (22:53.399)
So the most common sign of this problem or the lack of
emotional expression or lack of connecting with one's own emotions in men is
they would start being very objective about things, day to day life. know, very
objective, say, I would mean, they'll be like, okay, checklist has to be
ticked. So did I call my family? Yes.
Purnima (23:22.77)
Did I go to my work? Yes. Or did I finish the tasks assigned
to me by my boss? Yes. Did I eat two meals? Yes. Did I drink my coffee or my
tea? Yes. So, all of those things, when they start performing as if they are on
a time machine or mechanical performance, that is when we need to understand
that,
Purnima (23:53.621)
This is the problem. They are running away from intimacy.
When they start being very dry about any conversation, they take those
conversations as a matter of fact.
Nazneen Kachwala (24:09.923)
Hmm.
Purnima (24:10.953)
When they are playing games with their friends, when they
are joining their friends for sports activity or for any gym or workout
activities, only because it is to be done, not because it makes them happy.
Nazneen Kachwala (24:25.794)
Hmm. Okay.
Purnima (24:27.173)
These are the earliest signs which they should be noticing in themselves. after that, then it could be judging other people who express themselves, not being okay with their family members' emotional expressions, finding it difficult to deal with somebody who is disturbed or somebody who is crying or somebody who has taken ill, then they are not okay with those.
Purnima (24:56.5)
things. And the final expression is when a man
Nazneen Kachwala (24:57.539)
Hmm.
Purnima (25:03.646)
cuts down on the amount of communication with the family
members in general, which I am sure a lot of us have observed the men in our
family, like towards their midlife or post -retirement. These men are there,
but their expressions are very matter -of -fact expressions. They do not talk
about the real challenges, the real issues.
Nazneen Kachwala
(25:10.2)
Hmm.
Purnima (25:30.417)
neither are they interested in listening to their partners
or family members' issues. They are like, okay, do this ho jayega. Do this,
this will be solved.
Nazneen Kachwala
(25:40.763)
Hmm. Okay.
Purnima (25:41.447)
But there is no
Purnima (25:42.389)
willingness to sit down and look at the gravity of the
problem and understand it because it stirs emotions in them which they are not
familiar with and it is very, very anxiety provoking.
Nazneen Kachwala (25:57.9)
Yeah. Okay. And you know, there is a lot of taboo around
therapy already. And especially when it comes to men, I believe that women in
general are considered to be vulnerable. So it's very much okay for her to go
and have a therapy session professionally. But do you see many men coming to
therapy sessions? And like, do you agree with what I'm seeing that men in
general
Nazneen Kachwala (26:27.136)
are a little skeptical in going for therapy because of the
taboos related to the subject.
Purnima (26:32.53)
Yes, men generally do not approach therapists, of course,
because of the already existing taboos, but also because of some real time
challenges like taking care of a family, so not being able to prioritize
themselves. So, they would like to spend the same money and the time with their
family instead of investing it into a good therapy session, even though there
is a problem.
Purnima (27:02.673)
The second issue why not just men but very few people
approach therapists is because they believe family time is the best therapy. We
have been fed such beliefs that, you know, developing a hobby, joining a hobby
class or spending time with family, taking regular vacations, managing good
diet and so on and so forth are the best ways of therapy. No doubt these are
therapeutic activities.
Purnima (27:33.058)
when it comes to decoding your own emotions and being more
regulated in your emotional expression, that definitely requires professional
help. But we are yet to reach there.
Nazneen Kachwala (27:49.838)
So how is professional therapy or going for a therapy
session different than involving yourself into a hobby or trying to align your
emotions by spending more time with your family? How is it more effective, if
you can explain that?
Purnima (28:09.552)
professional therapy session puts you in a zone where you
are in the spotlight.
Purnima (28:18.598)
And when you are in the spotlight, you can't escape. You
can't escape experiencing those anxieties, those fears, those nagging
questions, which have been buzzing in your mind for long. But somehow, through
your family time, through your vacations, through your work, through your
hobbies, you have managed to silence them. But in the therapy session, there
are no such defenses. You're there.
Nazneen Kachwala (28:42.211)
Hmm.
Purnima (28:47.877)
with your issues, with your challenges. And the therapist is
there as a facilitator, not as someone who will provide you the solutions. The
solutions will come once you are ready to sit with yourself. I always tell
people that if there is a problem, it has its own solution hidden in itself.
But if you want to know the solution, you have to first learn to be okay with
the problem.
Nazneen Kachwala (29:10.616)
Hmm.
Purnima (29:18.125)
have to first sit long enough with the problem so that it
can reveal its own solution to you. And that is what the professional
therapeutic space is about.
Nazneen Kachwala (29:30.804)
Okay, yeah. So you mentioned a little bit about men or women
in general who would want to spend more time with their families in order to
relieve their tensions. So that is how probably all of us are trained. So I
would just like to take this opportunity and talk a little bit about the gender
roles again. We have touched it very briefly towards the beginning of our
conversation.
Nazneen Kachwala (29:58.082)
But what I feel in general is that men have this added
responsibilities of shouldering the household expenses. Let's say if a woman,
to put it very directly, if a woman, especially in our culture, is taking care
of the household, and if she's not working, that's fine for her. That's not an
added pressure that she has to work. Right now, the women are working and
taking care of the.
Nazneen Kachwala (30:24.898)
Households is a different thing and that adds on to her
mental pressures and you know taking care of all the other things that that is
a different story but if the men if a man chooses to Take care of the house and
probably not go out and work in that is again frowned upon So I think there is
a lot of social stigma also associated with the gender gender roles in general
Nazneen Kachwala (30:52.834)
that puts a lot of pressure on men, although there's a lot
of talk about patriarchy and many, different things, biases, gender bias, pay
scale bias. But still, I feel that there are many such topics which are not
discussed and just we just close our eyes upon these topics. And there is a lot
of pressure on men as well when it comes to these things. Do you agree or how
do you see it?
Purnima (31:22.158)
So not just in terms of household chores and professional
work, I think the very basic notion which is not right in our culture is the
idea of what a house is. I think we are yet to diversify the type of households
because till now, up until now, I would say, 90 -95 % of the people believe
that if you
Purnima (31:51.648)
talk about a house, then it has to have certain elements.
For example, regular cooking, cleaning, washing dishes, doing laundry, taking
care of the, you know, there has to be some, some souvenirs kept in the living
room. There should be a TV. There should be this, there should be that. So I
think the diversified idea of a house is still not familiar to us.
Nazneen Kachwala
(31:59.586)
Hmm. Hmm.
Purnima (32:20.841)
We are not okay with the idea that two people living in one
BHK, it is completely okay to not have a fully functioning kitchen.
Nazneen Kachwala (32:33.536)
Hmm.
Purnima (32:34.719)
We are still not okay with an idea of a house where people
live without furniture.
Purnima (32:42.143)
We are not okay with the idea of people sending their
laundry or outsourcing their laundry work.
Purnima (32:54.154)
For us, houses get up in the morning, do these chores, cook,
clean, have your breakfast, and then rush to office, then come back to the same
kitchen and stand there and cook for yourself and feed the family members,
irrespective of genders. Of course, the pressure is more for women in our
culture, but these days even men are facing that same pressure that once you
have nine to 10 hours of professional life, even then you are supposed to
Purnima (33:23.877)
eat at home and that is the reason that the professional
restaurants or the eateries do not offer us the luxury of homemade food. They
still offer us the professional food cooked in a professional kitchen.
Purnima (33:43.857)
I think the very basic problem is we need to still diversify
what is a home. Home is where your heart is, not where chores are.
Purnima (33:56.041)
So I think this very concept of household chores in itself
needs to be done with.
Nazneen Kachwala (34:07.71)
Right, right. know, it's a good way or it's a nice way of
seeing a different perspective, I think, of seeing things. Okay.
Purnima (34:21.481)
Philosophically, if you look at it, I think the four
ashramas that we always had the concept. The Vanaprastha ashram, which begins
at the age of 50 around your midlife, the whole idea of Vanaprastha ashram was
this. To do away with the existing notions of house, family, chores, and spend
more time in self -reflection or introspection.
Purnima (34:51.059)
So we already had these ideas but the problem is that the
social system has somewhere left these core ideas behind and we have become all
about earning, spending, cooking, cleaning. That's it.
Nazneen Kachwala (35:09.791)
Okay, yeah, makes sense. Okay. Is there anything that you
would want to say in general, particularly to men because we are talking about
this subject, how they can take care or keep their mental health in check, just
some general points if you can share.
Purnima (35:28.29)
So in general, as I began with, I would first say that we
need to do a sincere check into our own mental beliefs as men. I guess every
man needs to look into his own beliefs. Is he also into being a provider or a
protector to his family and not thinking about himself?
Purnima (35:55.873)
It has become a very shaming idea for men or for women.
Whenever they think about themselves, they are shamed. You're being selfish,
you're being self -centered. And I think we need to now get over this and above
this and prioritize our individual happiness and satisfaction and contentment
first. Because I think you can't pour from an empty cup. If you are happy, you
will...
Nazneen Kachwala (36:06.19)
Mm -hmm.
Purnima (36:25.829)
You will spread that happiness to others. But if you
yourself are not happy, you going to create the same frustration around you.
Purnima (36:38.255)
where a lot will depend upon whether people fulfill your
expectations or not.
Purnima (36:46.883)
And as a strong believer of individual identity and work, I
always feel that we need to prioritise ourselves in everything that we do so
that we do not expect others to make us happy.
Purnima (37:07.416)
The biggest challenge is that we expect everybody around us
to make us happy, take care of our happiness, be concerned with whether their
actions or behaviors or relations with us would be good to us or not. Why? Can
I not decide what makes me happy? Can I not know what makes me happy? And once
I set
Nazneen Kachwala (37:29.368)
Hmm.
Purnima (37:32.884)
all my relations free from this burden to make me happy, I
think the relationships will blossom.
Purnima (37:40.664)
We will connect with each other because we want to connect
with each other, not because it is necessary to avoid loneliness.
Nazneen Kachwala (37:55.724)
In the beginning of the conversation, you mentioned about
adjusting versus compromising. I would want you to elaborate a little bit more
on that. What is the difference between the two?
Purnima (38:08.526)
So for me, adjustment is all about a conscious recalibration
of your desires or your actions or how you look at things or how you would want
to spend that particular hour or time. Whereas compromise is where you have
done something in the name of a relationship, in the name of making the other
person happy and you are not conscious of it. You are doing it because you have
been taught.
Nazneen Kachwala (38:35.627)
Okay.
Purnima (38:38.797)
to compromise because you have been taught to prioritize
others.
Nazneen Kachwala (38:47.306)
And one question that comes to my mind as we were talking is that does it happen that usually a woman who has probably some issues and would want to go for a therapy session would want to have a woman as a therapist and a man would prefer to go to a man maybe because they feel that the if the opposite if the gender of the therapist is the same as his or hers then there would be a more empathetic conversation. Yeah, the understanding would be better. Does it happen in general?
Purnima (39:17.175)
With women, it does. They do prefer the same gender person,
but with men, it is the opposite. They prefer a woman to be there.
Nazneen Kachwala (39:27.137)
Okay, and why is it so?
Purnima (39:28.791)
because again, a belief in them that she would listen.
Nazneen Kachwala (39:36.256)
Okay.
Purnima (39:36.811)
And second, the other man as a counselor probably would have
the same biases and the perceptual errors like mine.
Nazneen Kachwala (39:48.342)
Okay, okay, I get it. Yeah. Is there anything that you would
want to add to this conversation?
Purnima (39:54.955)
Nothing just that, I think everybody needs to believe in
himself or herself, not because it is the needed thing, but because this is THE
thing.
Purnima (40:10.646)
There is no two ways about it. If you are not the centre of
your life, you cannot be the centre of anyone's life.
Nazneen Kachwala (40:27.146)
Thank you. Thank you for Purnima. I think I had a great time
and a lot of new perceptions and a lot of I think I have to do a lot of
rethinking and probably when I listen to this podcast again, I'll have a little
bit of more questions. I'm sure and I'll come back to you maybe through an
email or through our WhatsApp chat. But thank you so much for your time and I
look forward to communicating with you again.
Purnima (40:53.676)
Thank you so much, Nazeen. It was equally refreshing and
wonderful for me to get to know you, to share my thoughts and expressions. And
I hope that our listeners or audiences would love what we have discussed in
general.
Nazneen Kachwala (41:10.878)
Thank you so much, Purnima. Thanks a lot.
Purnima (41:11.884)
Thank you.
Leave a comment