The conversation explores the importance of interpersonal skills in the workplace and the role they play in maintaining positive mental health. It emphasizes the need for open communication, acknowledging differences, and promoting inclusivity. The role of leadership and company culture in fostering a supportive work environment is discussed, as well as the impact of colleagues in motivating and maintaining a stable mindset. The conversation also touches on the challenges of work-life balance and the need for boundaries between personal and professional life. The importance of resilience and adaptability in the changing workforce is highlighted. The conversation discovers various aspects of mental health in the workplace, including the importance of open dialogue, the role of psychologists or counselors in the hiring process, the value of soft skills in job selection, coping with competition, dealing with monotony, and addressing mental health issues in the workplace. It emphasizes the need for trust, understanding, and support from both employees and organizations. It also highlights the importance of self-care, self-reflection, and seeking professional help when needed.
Guest's bio: Aparajitha Venkateswaran is a qualified Psychologist and an internationally accredited Certified Soft Skills Trainer with over three years of experience dedicated to empowering individuals and organizations in today’s dynamic world. With a strong academic foundation, including an MA in Clinical Psychology and a Professional Programme in Soft Skills Training, Aparajitha combines evidence-based strategies with a client-centric approach to foster personal and professional growth. Having trained over 400 individuals across various domains and provided over 1200 hours of therapy, she brings a unique blend of expertise to her sessions, focusing on emotional intelligence, communication skills, and stress management. When she’s not leading engaging workshops or providing insightful therapy sessions, Aparajitha channels her creativity as a trained Bharatnatyam dancer , because who says you can’t express your feelings through dance? She loves to travel and explore new cultures, finding inspiration in every journey (and the occasional snack). With her motto to enable people to grow and meet the challenges of tomorrow while being satisfied versions of themselves today, Aparajitha continues to make a meaningful impact in the lives she touches, one insightful conversation at a time.
Takeaways
Full Interview Transcript:
Nazneen Kachwala (00:00.0)
Hello, Aparajitha Rajita. I'm so happy to have you for this conversation. And I think it's a great topic. And all of us are working women, and many of us go to our workplaces every day. And this is a topic of concern for many, people, because the workforces in India have increased to a very large extent. And it's very relevant. So thank you for joining
Nazneen Kachwala (00:33.011)
and I'm looking forward to this conversation with
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (00:36.391)
Thank you so much, Nazneen. And it's my pleasure to be here today to talk about something which is very close to my heart. Mental health is something that I am preaching, I am doing it. So it's good to be talking about something which is very, very important in today's time. So thank you for having me
Nazneen Kachwala (00:55.648)
Yeah, I would ask you that. But we get confused to interpersonal skills. You know, this is a topic which is not taught in our schools or colleges and mostly academically inclined to have your mostly inside the textbooks and reference books. But we forget about interpersonal skills. And many of us do get jobs, do land into jobs.
Nazneen Kachwala (01:23.17)
but we don't know how to interact with our fellow colleagues or the leadership or our juniors. if you explain a bit about what skills are and what the importance of when you go at a workplace.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (01:41.571)
Sure. See to just break it into very simple points and just to know the history of it. We as humans, are social beings. So we need that social affiliation. So right since the evolution times, you see that we've evolved in a group. So there is a natural affiliation to people around us and that's the need each and every human has.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (02:04.927)
In today's time, especially when you see post -COVID, what is happening is that people have become more nuclear. They have gone more into their shells. But the basic human connection is very, very important. So right from the evolution time, we've seen that people have grown in groups, people have evolved in groups. So there's nothing very different and it's very natural for anyone to feel that the need of belonging to someone, to belong to a place, to belong to a group.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (02:33.195)
So now talking about the interpersonal, interpersonal is nothing but the relationship you have with your fellow beings. It can be your spouse, can be your parents, your friends, your kids, your coworkers, your leadership, your manager, anyone. It can also be the relation you're having with a street vendor, any vendor who is selling you something. So the difference comes and the issues arises as you mentioned when
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (03:02.165)
The skills are not developed to a level where you are conveying your points properly and you are not listening to the other points properly. That's when the issues arise. So basically as human beings, the one very very important skill which happens is that how we other people, how we live and how we solve So interpersonal skills is nothing
Nazneen Kachwala (03:11.852)
Hmm. Hmm.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (03:31.549)
but how you are living with the other person in harmony. That's it. To be simply put.
Nazneen Kachwala (03:39.212)
Correct. And so whenever we go to a workplace, all of us, we come from our cultural background. We have our own mental filters. You know, we have our own mindset. We've been brought up in a certain way. We come from a particular educational institution. And everybody else at the workplace also has his or her own individual background as such. Now,
Nazneen Kachwala (04:07.926)
When we talk of interpersonal skills, I think it is very important that all of us know how to, in the first place, break our mental filters and be open to having a dialogue and open communication with our fellow colleagues. How can someone do this? How own mental filters and biases?
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (04:25.694)
Exactly.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (04:31.2)
Okay. Right. See, biasness is something that is very, very prevalent. As you mentioned that every culture, every person, like the five fingers are not same. Every person working in say, especially a workplace are not same. They have different upbringing. They have different types of food habits. Right? Food habits also becomes a very big point of say conflict.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (04:57.087)
Right? So when we put all these things together, the first and the foremost thing that is absolutely important is that you acknowledge that there is a difference. Right? So now what happens is that first step is you acknowledge. Yes, this different in me. My culture is such that the culture is different. I am a vegetarian, you are a non -vegetarian. My, my say song preferences like this or my even say the AC setting is different. The other person is different.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (05:26.475)
I'm taking very normal day -to -day examples here because it's very easy to understand like that. These are the main reasons why the conflicts also arise. Now take the example of a workplace. People come to say metro cities or people coming from say the underprivileged background also. They have come up to the space right now that they are also joining the urban work space.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (05:53.439)
Now the very important part over here is inclusivity. And that comes again from acknowledging that yes, there is a difference, but I am not going to let this difference hamper the working relationship. See again, there's the thin line between how professional you want to be at the workplace and how much of your personal things you want to bring into the workspace. Sometimes it happens that our thought
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (06:19.831)
Our upbringing is taught to to certain people You have to stay away from certain kind of people and you don't have to stand up for yourself. Don't get into a fight. Something like that. But now when you enter the workforce, you are there at the workplace. There is this assignment given to you. There is no fault of yours but you've been told that this your fault. It's possible. I don't know.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (06:46.783)
But then over there, what been That no, no, no, you should not pick up any fights. You have to be normal there. You have to calm down, which is very true. But about how assertively you stand up for yourself is also a cultural difference that comes in. Right. So just to be mindful that, yes, there is a difference. The other person might be different, but you don't have to treat anyone very differently. You have to
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (07:12.258)
be mindful of those differences.
Nazneen Kachwala (07:12.258)
Hmm. Hmm.
Nazneen Kachwala (07:13.921)
Yeah. so talking of differences, okay. I think as you said that when there are two people or when there is a group which is working together, of course they're going to be disagreements, maybe professionally on projects, on technicalities on many different things, right? Even things like AC temperature, like these other things which do come up.
Nazneen Kachwala (07:39.69)
and these raise two differences. I think differences are important sometimes to come to an appropriate conclusion. Do you agree with this? And like, do you want to say anything about this?
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (07:49.911)
Mm -hmm.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (07:53.931)
Definitely see I'll tell you something about a psychological phenomenon called group think. There are two people who are more influential. Okay, they are more assertive or they look very confident when they say something so to other people who feel that they are a little less confident or they are easily influenced by those people they'll be like, haa is ne aise bol deyana to yeh sahi hi hoga. To let's say yes to them. Jo be hu bol rahein let's go with
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (08:23.221)
Now, what is the drawback of group think is that you are not going to go over limits. You're not going to try something new. You are not going to challenge yourself. When you say no, challenges begin. Conflicts begin. But when there are conflicts, there is the opportunity for growth.
Nazneen Kachwala (08:48.376)
Yeah.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (08:49.429)
Right? For example, in a group, they that no, we have to go by this project in this way itself. Everyone is like, okay, whatever you say. But nobody is going to think beyond that. Even if someone has a good idea, they would be like, no, no, this other person has said that this is the right way to go about it. So we will go. This is known as group think. When this happens at a workplace, you are not going to push limits. Risk -taking behavior reduces. Ultimately, you stop challenging yourself.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (09:19.253)
Right? So when that happens, the company, the overall company growth or the individual growth in a company sort of reduces. You're not pushing those limits for
Nazneen Kachwala (09:29.974) Yeah, and if I may add something to this, think company culture also plays a very important role in promoting positive disagreements. Because sometimes what happens is a person can be right, or he or she can be cannot be right. You know, we all tend to experiment and learn from our mistakes. But then it's a good mentality that you know, there has to be Aparajitha Venkateswaran (09:55.456) Hmm. Nazneen Kachwala (09:58.892) There has to be like when a group is discussing something, it should be a team effort. But whenever, if everything falls in place, then it's the team which has done it. But if something goes wrong, then you blame it on the one person who has done it. So I think the company culture plays a very important role in promoting the positive dissent part of what we discussed here. OK, speaking of company culture. Aparajitha Venkateswaran (10:10.281) that one person. Yes. Nazneen Kachwala (10:26.262) I think there parts to this. One is a top to down approach and the other is bottom to up approach. So what is the role of leadership and company culture as we spoke broadly in promoting positive mental health in the colleagues or in the people who working for a particular organization? Aparajitha Venkateswaran (10:33.589) Got you. Yeah.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (10:54.593)
Sure. See, I'm just talking about mental health at workplace, right? Initially, you never used to have this segment where people are like sort of bringing in mental health companies and providing therapy or some sort of counseling to the employees. Now I'll tell you the other side to
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (11:19.477)
There are few companies who bringing these companies wherein they provide mental health services to their own employees. Now the difference comes here is that, if there is this person now, let's talk about say when you're going to work, in person work, means you're physically going and there's a counselor in your company. What you have to say? Someone has to that I'm going for an hour to meet maybe the manager.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (11:46.325)
Now, what will happen if that manager or the company space is not very inclusive or they are not very mental health positive? What is going to happen? They're going to shame this person for going to the counselor. So this is a two -way street that is happening even when there is the the setup wherein the people can go and seek help, but it might be looked down upon. It's very superficial. Now, just talking about descent, right?
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (12:15.927)
we want all of you to come and talk about yourselves or any issues that you want communicate that is where we that is where we are going to grow with that. But what happens? They will not even acknowledge it in most places. There are places where they do. I'm just talking about the majority space wherein there's not even a single acknowledge been given to the descent.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (12:44.267)
Right? So over time what will happen? I am saying or saying but nothing being not even so why should I even speak up? So then what will happen? A herd mentality begins. manager says, whatever the company says, I will keep Right? So that is going to lead to say irritability, that is going to lead to stress, that is that might lead to burnout also because you to concentrate
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (13:12.705)
So what will happen ultimately your productivity is going to reduce whatever you're going to work that is there is there's no meaning towards that. Right? So the leadership comes into play over here. If the company if the organization is mental health positive, what they're going to do is they will have open dialogue. They're going to have open conversations with their people, right? They might even have some say coffee sessions or just like a chit chat time in which they are not even going to talk about work.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (13:41.889)
But it's just like a... Like we casually talk about what's going on what do you do apart from your work. So this way, form a bonding between leadership and employees. So when the distance, and this is the perceived distance, between leadership and employees, then there is a good balance. If this distance is more, so there's going to be some issues that is created in the workplace.
Nazneen Kachwala (14:09.868)
Yeah, and you know my first manager, I think when we talk about leadership, people who are at the lower hierarchy usually have don't have much to do with the higher leadership. It's just the culture. It's just the usual emails and the town halls which they conduct, you have a direct relationship with your manager. So I think my first manager told me and I remember it very
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (14:23.479)
Mm -hmm.
Nazneen Kachwala (14:38.54)
Clearly, he said that whenever a person leaves the company, he or she does not leave the company. He or she actually leaves the manager.
Nazneen Kachwala (14:48.642)
So it's very important actually for the manager to have a positive relationship with the employee. Sometimes, unfortunately, it happens that the manager starts to, it happens, I've seen it many times, there are positive good managers also who are working in the team, who are putting their efforts and who are a part and parcel of whatever the work is being conducted.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (15:06.901)
Hmm hmm hmm.
Nazneen Kachwala (15:13.698)
But then there are sometimes there is no acknowledgement of the work which the colleague or the employee of the team has done and there is no appropriate credit sharing. And all of this also affects mental health very badly. Right.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (15:19.959)
True,
Nazneen Kachwala (15:28.681)
And yeah.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (15:28.681)
definitely definitely yes
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (15:30.233)
i'll tell you more such examples the same thing you after you finish that thing
Nazneen Kachwala (15:34.858)
Yeah, yeah,
Nazneen Kachwala (15:35.925)
yeah, please you go ahead. just wanted to bring this
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (15:39.287)
So you know there are many many things while like you mentioned, if you are you due credit, what is going to happen? It didn't twice, then it's going to be like, no how much work, I'm not going to get enough credit for this. So that leads to demotivation. That leads to say, I'm not interested in my work anymore, I'm just on an autopilot mode. going coming, the laptop, that's all going on.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (16:07.445)
You're not doing anything meaningful there. So what is going to happen? You're not going to contribute effectively to the growth of the company or nor yourself not you're not doing any good to you nor your company, right? So if you can also see this thing that sometimes a good manager is going to appreciate you in front of everyone and give you a constructive feedback in
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (16:33.473)
Yeah, that makes a lot of difference. Because you are giving your credit in front of everyone. You're appreciated for everything. where it comes to not criticism, but constructive feedback, in private. And that's how I think it should be. Right? Because you publicize whether good job or not. But you to improve because you never know what sort of a mindset the other person is in.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (17:00.949)
Right? So this takes a lot of I'm not saying the role of a manager is also easy because he or she has to cater to so many people who are very different. They have to understand what the needs of the other person is and then go accordingly and as a person in the authority or in a person of a leadership person has to go through a lot of things himself or herself. Right? So
Nazneen Kachwala (17:22.975)
Yeah, true.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (17:25.291)
he or she doesn't believe that okay, mental health is important or there is something known as stress, there is something known as burnout, the person is not going to give you diligence to other people also in that manner. Right? So it's a two -way street.
Nazneen Kachwala (17:42.4)
Yeah, that's true. Managers have their own share of work and all their own share of stress and they have to present many things and attend many meetings and I completely understand that. Okay. Now, when we said that all of us, you know, come from different backgrounds again to our previous conversation and everyone has their personal issues, right?
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (17:52.043)
Yeah.
Nazneen Kachwala (18:04.704)
And when they step into the workplace, they have to mentally leave all of that behind and then come and sit on the desk and work. But sometimes you tend to step on the other side of the border. Sometimes you tend to get a call from your family for an emergency or something or the other is going on. Maybe it's in the school of your child or maybe with your
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (18:32.514)
Yeah.
Nazneen Kachwala (18:32.994)
partner or anything and you get a call and then there are colleagues who are listening to things that are happening with you, right? But I think that besides leadership, it is the colleagues with which you work, your cubicle where you sit in. That place, the people who sit in that cubicle, they play a very important role in motivating you to work positively and to have like a stable mindset while you are there at your workplace.
Nazneen Kachwala (19:02.188)
So I would want you to talk a little bit more on this. We talked about the leadership, but then what is the role of the colleagues who are sitting around me, my teammates, to help me in being sane?
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (19:17.038)
Absolutely, you know what a person sort of spends how much 9 10 11 12 hours sometimes at a workplace It is sort of like a family that you're building away from your your own personal family right now our own family has conflicts, can opinions can but then you make up and then you come back again the same thing happened at workplace also it's just that there has to be a little
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (19:45.303)
difference in the personal and the professional approach towards that and you very rightly said that sometimes the difference or the the margin sort of goes away the boundary goes away, right? There's a KB. Her sick all of ya and this is happening more often now because of the work from home setup that has come up more right office hair. So there's no clear demarcation where your offices away your personal home is right. So the colleagues make a very very good
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (20:15.451)
area or say a setup wherein you can confide in because at workplace they might be also going through the same things that you are. So who is the better person to understand or empathize with what you are going on because you might have the same manager, you might have the same leadership, you might have the same colleagues that you are pissed off with. Right? So they are the best people to understand what exactly you are going through.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (20:41.621)
But again, that relationship can be made or broken by the same people. And that happens because maybe people are not authentic enough. People are not listening, actively listening to what the other person has to say. So there are some things and there is again the very, very important topic about competition that is very, very much prevalent these days. And it is not in terms
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (21:09.655)
opportunities are but more is competition for Now, who get appraisal, how much personal increment will to all this is going on in their mind. I would also like so one of my mentors also told me this thing that a person, however he or she is in their personal life might be reflected the same thing in the professional life also.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (21:34.837)
There's no demarcation. We can say whatever to your personal life separate, keep your professional life separate. There are certain things that are going to spill over. Why not? For example, in my personal life, I am having a bad day.
Nazneen Kachwala (21:43.191)
Yeah.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (21:48.493)
Do you think you will be able to cut off from that and work properly in your workspace or vice versa?
Nazneen Kachwala (21:48.493)
Hmm.
Nazneen Kachwala (21:55.936)
No, no, no. No, it's not possible.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (21:57.577)
it's not
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (21:58.139)
going to happen. So the best way to deal with certain differences such as these is to acknowledge first that yes, there's a difference that is going on. am being so I'm in a good mood, right? So half the time, you deny it? No, no, no, it's nothing like that. I'm everything right. Now, talk to your colleague for talk your family member for if you're a problem, then it will be easier to go ahead with that.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (22:26.325)
because then you are dropping it off. I just remember something that my relative once told me that keep a point near your home and keep a point near your office. You your house, jacket you want to it's a virtual, just an imaginary jacket, you to work, pick it up from wear it go
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (22:51.081)
office is job are you office got you be caught up and will we be tripping Nicole or Arja if this is a imaginary points because it's sort of like brings us to this point that you don't have to bring your work to home and home to work. But my question over here for everyone and even for myself. I sort of think about it. Is it really possible?
Nazneen Kachwala (22:59.392)
Yeah.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (23:16.427)
Sometimes yes, but there are things that is not really happening that you can just forget about something. Abhi ghar pe someone is not well. The person is ailing for a long time. Can you switch off? You can't. On an immediate level, it's difficult, right? So the people at the workplace has to understand that okay, this person is going through something. Empathy is the most most important thing. Kindness.
Nazneen Kachwala (23:32.634)
It's difficult.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (23:46.289)
understanding that this is what the other person is going through. Okay, let me just cut some slack for this person. So when you do that, maybe next time the other person is going to help. So if everyone understands this, then this going to be a very, very good atmosphere to work in where people are on the same page.
Nazneen Kachwala (24:00.109)
Yeah.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (24:10.197)
people with similar, even if they are having different experiences or cultural background, but yet they come to sort of succeed on a similar goal that they develop over the
Nazneen Kachwala (24:22.518)
That's true. Yeah, very well said. And I think in this, I'll just add something. When you said that, you you put on the when you put on the jacket of your work, usko ap tanke fir aap ghar par aaye and then I think again, the company culture plays a very important role here, because then there have been workplaces, you know, in India, you have you work for a particular time for eight hours.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (24:42.999)
Yes.
Nazneen Kachwala (24:50.83)
let's say eight, nine hours broadly. And after that also sometimes you're expected to stay back. Unfortunately, you're expected to stay back or you're expected to stay available on your phone. Even if it's like 10 o 'clock in the night or 11 o 'clock in the night, you are expected to stay available because sometimes because of the company culture, it becomes difficult to have a clear demarcation between the personal
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (24:57.035)
Yes.
Nazneen Kachwala (25:19.059)
and professional life.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (25:19.059)
Definitely.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (25:20.42)
Yes. Yes, that is what in today's time. What what that is what is more prevalent now maximum workspace now take the example of work from home. It is taken for granted that since you're working from home, there's no set time limit. Yeah, so Jitana be fancy sound cut a key work from home here. It has its own pros and cons and one of the cons is that there's no
Nazneen Kachwala (25:35.138)
Yeah. True.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (25:45.953)
proper structural time or a start and the end. That's again the flexibility that work from home offers. If you are meant for it, if it spooks you, definitely you can go ahead with it. But there are people who feel that name, structured time, in time, out time, so I can function better. So that that definitely happens and I absolutely understand that there's no, you can't just do that. You can't just cut off from say home or office whenever you want. That is why
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (26:15.337)
what we usually do is, okay, this every day, so you have to re -evaluate the work that you're doing. Is it you or is it the company? What does mean? Is it something of your doings that you feel that your knowledge is because of your pace, the way you're working, is slow? Or you are doing it pretty well, but then they are adding on, you keep adding on work.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (26:43.157)
and it's a never -ending thing or they are giving you like quick deadlines and it's not something that you can just fulfill at the last moment. So then there comes the evaluation point wherein you are thinking for your own self and that when you know that okay self -growth and self -improvement is happening at the right space and still I'm
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (27:09.301)
getting my due diligence at office or I'm not able to cope with the dynamic environment of the office, then you have to re -evaluate the environment you are
Nazneen Kachwala (27:19.682)
Right. And I think that at the initial stage of the career of anyone's career, it is very important to hustle. So when you're hustling, it's fine, you know, because you have to give in more time to the organization. And that's how it is, you know, because we have a lot of competition in our country and there are a lot of applications for one positions and you have a job and probably you should be grateful to it. I completely agree to all of these things. And towards the initial stage, it's very important to hustle. But then there has to be
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (27:29.964)
Mm -hmm.
Nazneen Kachwala (27:50.422)
There has to be a point where you get into the flow of the things and the hustling mentality. You can give a break to yourself or you can slow down and then you can have your own personal life as well because I have seen people and managers and colleagues whose personal life is completely, let's say, disrupted but they are doing very well professionally.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (28:16.407)
Correct, correct. Very well said because you know, I know people who the clients also some of the clients that I deal with they are doing exceptionally well in their professional life. Okay. And they were I'm just giving you this example of one client that so the client couldn't come to recurrent therapy sessions because the work was so much and the reason that the client came for therapy is
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (28:46.443)
have to discuss that there was something going on in the relationship to mend the relationship to work on the relationship. So ultimately what was happening is because the career got the spotlight. The relationship was getting it was just going down the drain. But see that's the choice a person has to make at some point, right? So like you mentioned the initial years. It's very important to hustle. Now, let me just take this point.
Nazneen Kachwala (29:07.49)
Yeah.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (29:15.435)
to discuss about something. Now, just take the example that is fresher now. We about Gen Z so or the new workforce that now. They are very different from the traditional people who have been there in the workspace for a long, long time. Now, I'll tell you, the example is basically today's generation or the people having say or just going into the working space.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (29:45.015)
They are very cut and right. Yes to yes, no to no. They are very assertive. But if you see people who are having say 6 years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years experience, they can't say They have never learned Because the culture was different back then. No, I'm not saying what is right and what is wrong. To stand up for yourself definitely it is something but the other side to this thing is that there is low tolerance.
Nazneen Kachwala (29:55.842)
Yeah.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (30:14.327)
Let me quit the job. So let's go. So resilience is lacking there. So that is also something that you have to revaluate and this is also pointer for the employers because see when they are hiring people they have to see certain things and they can't have the same set of rules that they used to have before things are changing things are dynamic today. The workforce is so
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (30:42.555)
this generation that they need to be tackled in a very different way and that different way is that you give them a space of open dialogue. In earlier times, used to be that no, no, the boss used to whatever the manager used to we will do it. Right now, they are very creative. Creativity is there. There is exploration of new ideas. Right? So if the traditional methods of say a workplace is going
Nazneen Kachwala (30:46.776)
Hmm.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (31:10.549)
The new generation is not going to take in. They are not going to feel that this is going to be a right fit. So they will keep changing jobs. So the attrition rate is going to be high for the company. the company will more time
Nazneen Kachwala (31:20.622)
Hmm.
Nazneen Kachwala (31:26.19)
True. Right. One thing that was coming to my mind when you were talking this, when we're talking about this is that will it be a good idea to have a psychologist or let's say a therapist. Therapist might not be a proper word or a counselor, but a person who understands the mindset of the person, of the other person to be on the panel, to be on the hiring panel.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (31:53.963)
Definitely. I'll give you a very, very relevant example. All the armed forces when they're recruiting have a psychologist, a clinical psychologist, or probably even a psychiatrist in their
Nazneen Kachwala (32:00.631)
Okay.
Nazneen Kachwala (32:08.768)
Okay, and it's just for the reason because the HR might not be able to tap onto these things in depth.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (32:16.503)
Could
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (32:16.642)
be could be see HR is also that they are very well versed with understanding people. They are also in the PR like personal relations and public relations part of it, right? That is a separate thing. But now as a prof when you're bringing a professional who is just like sort of grown in this field, they know that they have the expertise in this field. They can understand the requirements of what the company wants and if this candidate is going to be the right fit for that.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (32:47.637)
Right now, there are two faces to it. There are two candidates. One candidate is exceptionally good in the hard skills, meaning the subject knowledge. Amazing. Okay, but the person lacks communication. The person lacks the basic etiquette how to talk or just just how to be in a group or work in a team. Okay, that is one part. There's a second person who is average.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (33:15.967)
Not very good, not very bad, but average in the subject knowledge, but the person can work in a team is a subjectable to learning more. What do you think would be the more prevalent thing that the company is going to choose?
Nazneen Kachwala (33:31.308)
Yeah, I think the average person who's able to manage everything, a bit of the technicality and also the group.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (33:39.859)
Exactly, because in today's time people are giving more focus to the soft skills like communication, how they are behaving in a team, how they are sort of able to manage a conflict within the team rather than someone who will just be like, no, this is the way it has had to be done. I know it better. So in today's time, a know it all is not going to be taken in the company than someone who is willing to learn and grow.
Nazneen Kachwala (34:04.65)
Yeah, makes sense. Okay. I think you talk a little bit about competition already, competition with the same colleagues that you work with day in and day out and but then there is always a sense of, you know, he or she is my competitor or I have to, you know, do better than him or her. And sometimes the team spirit gets a little bit affected. So how can someone cope with this mind mindset of competition?
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (34:21.195)
Hmm
Nazneen Kachwala (34:34.447)
and going up in the hierarchical positions and still being good and kind and empathetic to the colleagues with whom he or she is working
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (34:47.827)
Yeah, so you know what the biggest competitor a person can have is their own selves. Right. So sometimes what happens is that the external fight that we might be having with a colleague might stem from something that we are fighting internally with us. Right. So, for example, the other person got, say, a credit for something or the person got promoted, but I did not.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (35:18.319)
There is a valid reason that we have the same work but still he has more. So instead there would be again there might be two types of people who might be like how did This is not something which is good. I am going to leave this job because nobody gives me credit. That person is also fair. Then comes this thing. Okay, there might be some reason why the company has not given me the promotion and has given the other person promotion. So the other person is going to be more self -reflective.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (35:47.679)
Okay, what next can I do? Let me take a feedback. What more I can do. So there are two types of people again. Now, it's a choice in which category we want to fall in. Right? So the competition first of all arises within. Sometimes our blocks, our own biases, that makes us sometimes even feel jealous of the other person at the work. It's a common feeling and we absolutely agree it does happen and we acknowledge and empathize with people who feel jealous
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (36:17.237)
the other people. Now the root cause is something that we have to find out. Why am I feeling jealous? When you start looking inwards and walking on your thing, the external competition is going to reduce. Because you are going to be working on yourself. You're going to upgrade. You're going to upskill. Definitely, when you do that, people are going to notice you. The leadership is going to notice you. Right? Then ultimately, you are in the right track of your self -growth.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (36:47.189)
person who invests in themselves ultimately is going to be seen and they are going to be succeed. So I think the way how you can tackle say competition, external competition is to have a sense of self -reflective nature towards our own self.
Nazneen Kachwala (37:09.454)
Hmm.
Nazneen Kachwala (37:12.586)
Right, very well said or a small thing which I would want to add here is that the culture of discussing salaries, the culture of discussing the percentage increments that everybody is getting should be totally abolished because people are satisfied until they don't know what the other person is having. That is also a mindset which
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (37:39.1)
True, true, yes.
Nazneen Kachwala (37:40.652)
So I think this is something which as a company culture should be promoted like very, very with very strict idea, like a very strict norm it should be. Although it is there everywhere on paper, but there are many things on the paper. And we are very smart in overlooking at all those things. then mostly.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (37:51.169)
True, true, true.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (38:03.925)
You know, there is
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (38:04.41)
this line that comes there, do not discuss your salary with your colleagues and that's a... That happens. It's this.
Nazneen Kachwala (38:11.163)
Yeah, but it's just there. It's just there. Yeah, and
Nazneen Kachwala (38:13.674)
everybody actually knows what the other person is getting. it's in the hush -hush tone also. It's a very huge discussion during the increment time. And I think, yeah, this culture should be evaluated very often. And people should have a dialogue, especially from the leadership, that this should not be accepted. Yeah. OK.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (38:21.245)
Definitely, definitely.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (38:30.923)
Hmm hmm hmm.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (38:33.985)
See, there's a different, there are multiple ways actually how we can look at this thing, right? Either a person comes in with X amount of experience and say, two, three people with the same experience comes in. Now, do you really think that the skill set is going to be the same? It can be different, okay? So when the skill set is different, again, this is a very subjective thing depending on company how they are going.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (38:59.319)
I know few people that when they joined and other people also joined at the same time had varied salaries. Okay. So now the question comes up that people joining at the same position in the same department should they be having same salary or a different salary?
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (39:18.655)
Right? And this is a... If nobody knows, it's well and good. But what happens is that today's time, everybody knows what the other person's salary is. And then that's when the competition, the internal rift, conflicts begin with the other people.
Nazneen Kachwala (39:32.866)
Yeah.
Nazneen Kachwala (39:36.049)
Yeah. And I think the reason why we are discussing all of this is we are not teaching any organization how to function. It's just that our topic of discussion is the mental health of a positive mental health of the individuals who are at your workplace. And that's the only purpose of having this conversation. So I would just, yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (39:53.767)
Exactly, just throwing light that this is something employees think about.
Nazneen Kachwala (39:59.566)
You also touched upon a little bit about coping with monotony Right and I think it's very important that we are with monotony It becomes very it's a little Kind of a discomfort initially when you a workplace but you realize over a period of time that okay You have your work and then you have to be punch in at a particular time punch out at a particular time
Nazneen Kachwala (40:27.352)
You know, have to have break at a particular time. You have to have meet your deadlines. And that is the monotony of life that gradually steps in. And I think that takes a very big toll on someone's mindset, mental health. And then people are just, everything is okay. Everything goes okay in someone's life professionally, he or she is making growth personally. Also, everything is fine, but it is just the monotony that is
Nazneen Kachwala (40:57.4)
probably killing him or her. How to cope with this? can someone understand the importance of monotony and how to cope with this positively?
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (40:59.219)
Hmm... True, Right.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (41:12.115)
Right? See, monotony is something that happens when you're doing the repetitive task in a repeated fashion. Sometimes the monotony can lead to being your comfort zone also. How? When you do the repeated task again and again and again,
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (41:40.001)
What is going to happen? You're going to be comfortable with it. Right? And once you're comfortable and you have created a comfort zone over there, it's very difficult for you to try something new. Right? So but I understand there are some work that needs to be done on a regular basis. Every day is the same thing that you're doing. Right? Again, the first point would be that first acknowledge that yes, I am doing the same thing again and again. Okay. Ask yourself, is there anything I can do about
Nazneen Kachwala (42:10.198)
Mm
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (42:11.915)
that you can do about it, definitely make changes in there. But there are times when you can't see money is a very important factor. You can't do without it. The jobs because they have to like meet the ends. Right? So what happens then is that you take out time when you are away or when you come back home, do something for your own self. You change the perspective from serving others to serving your own
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (42:41.819)
You indulge in something that you probably like. You love reading. You read for a bit. Go for a jog, exercise, paint, sing, cook. Do whatever that makes you a bit happy because that is the little different things that you do to break the monotony of the work life. So, see sometimes we can't blame because the job role is as such. Right? If there is a company where the job role keeps changing, there's still something
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (43:10.773)
that is happening. But again, when the job role is also not fixed, it has led to people not being comfortable at work or not being able to focus on it. So there are again multiple ways how people deal with it. Right? So talking about monotony again, it is that how you are wanting to look at it. Do you want to look at it as comfort zone? Do you want to challenge it? Do you want to do something up when that work is not happening so that you feel a little good about yourself?
Nazneen Kachwala (43:20.632)
Hmm.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (43:40.405)
because that is your work because you're doing to earn money. This is something that I'm doing for myself, for my own sanity, for my own mental health and physical health.
Nazneen Kachwala (43:52.014)
Right, okay. And, you know, I was just thinking when you were talking, finding to do something what you love doing. It could be reading, cooking, exercising or anything, you know. But sometimes there are people who are involved in these activities a lot and they are involved in all of these things outside work. So they
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (44:10.987)
Hmm. Hmm.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (44:16.481)
Yes.
Nazneen Kachwala (44:16.97)
their own professional life and then they have a personal life in which they pursue these things. But then as we talked earlier, sometimes the boundary you keep on, you tend to discuss what is happening in your personal life as well with your colleagues. And then in the world of social media, things cannot be hidden because you're posting so many things on your social media feeds and everywhere. Sometimes what happens is that your colleagues or your company
Nazneen Kachwala (44:42.582)
looks down upon you for being involved in something in an activity that is, you know, not within the scope of your actual professional work. And then you're tagged as probably being, you know, not focused and you have interests elsewhere in all of this. I don't know from where this mindset from where this culture comes up. is this is not. Yeah, this is something very, you know, very prevalent in our work workplaces.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (44:52.789)
Hmm hmm hmm.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (45:04.023)
sure.
Nazneen Kachwala (45:11.704)
especially in our side of the world. It's probably, yeah, probably it's not true in the Western world, but it's in our side of the world. It's unfortunately, it's very relevant. Maybe the things are changing and people are being open. But I think it's very important that people, you know, accept these things as hobbies and as passion projects. And I think the companies, I know many Indian companies who keep on, promote passion projects. And in fact, who sponsor passion projects as well.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (45:13.899)
True.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (45:38.815)
Yes, yes, yes.
Nazneen Kachwala (45:41.196)
And but that is on another level. cannot expect every organization to do that. But yeah, but at least I think some acceptance, some level of acceptance or acknowledgement of words of encouragement probably could play a very important role. Yeah.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (45:43.425)
True, true.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (45:57.651)
Absolutely, absolutely. You know what? see again this stems from the long lasting societal norms that have started that when you're working that is your life. Right? Things are changing, things are changing for the good and that's a good thing because now you imagine our parents time. What used to happen was
Nazneen Kachwala (46:16.622)
Hmm.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (46:27.883)
The work had nothing to do apart from life. Sometimes it was also happening that... ...whenever I on vacation, I felt like I a leave from That used to be a bigger thing. Now... ...guilt, yeah. It was a big thing back then. Now every second weekend, people need a weekend shot, weekend trip.
Nazneen Kachwala (46:43.126)
Yeah, it was a guilt. It was a guilt to take.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (46:56.801)
just relax, rewind and come back so that they can put their focus on. Now the mindset shift that has to come from the employer side is that if they don't do concentrate they won't do that they like, that is going to impact the work. Do you need that? No, right? So this is the mind shift that companies have to bring about. That let them do whatever people have to do
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (47:25.139)
Sometimes we talk about
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (47:53.759)
I know you have a lot of experience. You can try this also. This way. X, Y, Z way. Different way. Like, we weren't told way when we like this. So why say this? I understand them. I understand where this is coming from. Because they are also at a place where they might have not heard. It's not very natural for them to be hearing these things. If they never it, how will implement it?
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (48:18.935)
So it takes a lot of efforts on the manager's part. I definitely feel for them that there's a lot of work for them also because a lot of shackles they are breaking that they have learned to be giving to their team members. So at the same point, the team members also should cut some slack to their managers because they are also learning and growing the same way you are. So this is the dynamics that is playing.
Nazneen Kachwala (48:43.414)
Yeah, totally. agree. Now my I think my last question to you would be let's say there's a person and he or she is struggling mentally. He or she is having a mental health problem because of work because of personal issue and somebody at office or at his or her workplace has identified sees that okay, this person is struggling maybe
Nazneen Kachwala (49:10.936)
with productivity, with efficiency or, know, timeliness,
Nazneen Kachwala (49:15.297)
whatever, there's a problem. Self -motivation, whatever. What is the role of an organization as a whole to address this issue of mental health of a person when it is recognized, when it is identified?
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (49:15.297)
self motivation.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (49:26.603)
Mm -hmm.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (49:31.965)
Right. Okay. So the root over here is to have a good team bonding, right? So I'm not saying that one person has to be very close to each and every person in the team, but at least one person if there is there that you can confide in, it would be a better way to manage the things that you're going through, right? Now, there are a lot of mental health concerns that happen at workplace. Like you mentioned, there can be say,
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (50:01.215)
stress because the workload is so much you are burnt out but burnout basically means that you are continuously working for a long time. You're not taking break and it's taking a toll on your mental health and your physical health. You stop eating your sleep is bad. You don't sleep and eat on time right and you don't focus on your self -care. So these are some of the signs that you can start to understand that something is wrong and if you see your colleague
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (50:30.091)
having or going through something like this, you can just start a conversation. Is everything okay? Do you want to talk about something? So when you do that, the person would be like, okay, let me give it a try at least. I'm not saying the person will talk unless and until there is a trust. That is why the root cause is that the team bonding has to be very good. Right? So if there's someone in the team and you recognize these are some of the symptoms that you can visibly see.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (50:58.965)
that their productivity is going on, they are frequently absent to work or they're taking sick leaves or there are some excuses, continuous excuses that come in because of which the deadlines are not met or some work is not getting done. These are some of the signs that you can tap on. You can understand that something is going wrong over here. Be patient, be considerate. You can initiate that dialogue. Don't force.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (51:27.915)
You cannot force someone to talk about it. Just be there. You can just tell them I'm here if you want to talk about something. Right? So that is where now coming to the organization how organization can I wouldn't say that the main job of organization would be the preventative care for this right now, not just when things have happened, but to make sure things don't happen concerns. Don't get worse. They can take preventative steps how
Nazneen Kachwala (51:56.629)
Absolutely.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (51:57.227)
Definitely having mental health professionals in the company that they can take help of. They can provide trainings in the companies for say stress management, time management, or there can be times when they can initiate small batches conversation with them like a coffee session or just like a chit chat thing like I mentioned before. They can have like a games day where they're just relaxing and to be okay with taking breaks.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (52:27.351)
Right? So that is sort of underrated taking breaks is underrated. Right? So it is a lot of studies have also proven that when you take breaks say maybe a couple of hours you take say five to ten minutes or 15 minutes break. It is going to region going to work better. They're going to be more focused at your work. Right? So these are some of the things that the company can.
Nazneen Kachwala (52:27.362)
Hmm.
Nazneen Kachwala (52:48.994)
Hmm.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (52:52.489)
do and work wise they can also have the flexibility sometimes people just don't want to go to office because of see in in in this space in the asian space what we talk about is if we say that i'm not feeling like going to office i'm just feeling very sad today i don't want to go to office but this is not being opened
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (53:21.151)
Right? So there are some of the ways I understand it can be taken for granted also these things. the only thing is when someone says that they can work from home or they can have that flexibility that the company can provide that you hybrid culture. That is one of the things. Second thing that the organization can do is give these self learning prospects.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (53:48.447)
Some of the people are stagnated in the roles that they're doing. They feel that I've the same thing and I'm in the same rut, the monotony of it. Give them something to learn. Give them some courses, something that they can indulge themselves in, something that they can upskill about. Because in the same workspace, when a challenging thing comes, when a new thing comes, people are again motivated. there's something new happening. let me get on board with
Nazneen Kachwala (54:16.14)
Yeah
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (54:18.143)
Let me do something new. So these are some of the things that the organization can do for the team members.
Nazneen Kachwala (54:26.582)
Yeah, okay. And I think one of the biggest takeaways for me with all that you said was mutual trust. The organization should trust the employees that if he or she is not saying that he or she is not feeling well, then that's true. And, and also, the employee should trust the organization that whenever you are required to do a particular job, it's because it's the need of the hour and you have to be there.
Nazneen Kachwala (54:56.19)
dog so it's both ways it works both ways yeah
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (54:56.916)
Exactly.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (55:00.007)
Definite. It's a two -way street. You give trust, you take trust. That's how it is.
Nazneen Kachwala (55:05.852)
Yeah. there anything else Aparajita that you would want to add to this conversation?
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (55:10.579)
Definitely, definitely. see, like we mentioned what the organization should be doing about say how to be inclusive about mental health. There are certain things that us people who are working can do to just safeguard or just to have a healthy living or just just have a good well -being overall well -being. Number one is take care of yourself. Now when I say take care of yourself, it means nutritionally, biologically, physically,
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (55:40.087)
Even in the mental health part of it. If you feel that self -care is sort of reducing somewhere, you build that thing for your own self. Self -care doesn't just mean that you once or twice in Maybe you just take 10 -15 minutes of the day's entire day's time for your own self. Just sit with yourself, probably read a book, meditate or just do something that you feel is just for your own self.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (56:10.825)
Nobody else is, you're not doing it for anyone. So that reflecting part wherein you give that time to yourself is very, very important. Second, always, always sort of don't be afraid to try new things. But again, now when we do that, it sometimes makes us believe the biases that we have in our mind. am I capable of doing it?
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (56:35.047)
I can I even do it? There's so much competition. Why is someone going to choose me for a particular project or even like sending say for some site visit or something like that, right? So work on your negative talk, work on the negative self beliefs that have been developed over time. So if you feel that you are going through some things and some of the symptoms that we already spoke about, please, please reach out to a mental health professional.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (57:04.351)
You can seek help because you're not alone in this. This is something that I want to tell to everyone that everyone goes through something or the other. Some people can figure things out on their own. That is also okay. Some people need a little bit of external help and that is also absolutely fine. So if you feel that there's something bothering you and there's something that is stopping you from achieving things that you want to, definitely there's something. This is the step that you can take.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (57:33.941)
Right? So if every people who are listening to this particular podcast, just understand that whatever you do, do things for your own self, for your own happiness, for your own peace that you want to bring in. If you are peaceful inside to your own self, you're going to bring peace in the external world, maybe for your family, for your workspace also. Right? So choose yourself. That's what I would want to say.
Nazneen Kachwala (58:01.167)
Thank you so much, Aparajit. I had a great time talking to you on this very, important topic and a topic which is very close to my heart as well. Thank you so much.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (58:12.171)
Thank you. Thank you so much, Nazneen. It was a wonderful time talking to you also, and there were wonderful things that you mentioned about it. So I love being here, and thank you. Thank you for inviting.
Nazneen Kachwala (58:26.776)
Thank you so much. Bye.
Aparajitha Venkateswaran (58:28.887)
Thank you. Bye
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