Haider Jasdan, a psychotherapist and organizational coach, shares his personal journey with mental health and the reasons behind his passion for the subject. He discusses the challenges that teenagers face today, including social media pressure, academic stress, and lack of support systems. Haider emphasizes the importance of listening, quality time, and seeking professional help when needed. He also highlights the role of spirituality in navigating mental health problems and recommends books and digital content for further exploration.
Guest's Bio: Haider Jasdan is a seasoned learning & development professional and an organisation coach with rich experience in Leadership coaching, group processes, communications and diversity & inclusion. He values the power of tapping into human excellence and building cohesive, supportive communities to drive fruitful results. Before entering the HR world, he juggled his career from being a Microbiologist, co-founder of an NGO, and writing for theatre. This rollercoaster ride tapped various aspects of his personality and interests.
Beyond his day job, Haider is a trained Psychotherapist, certified NLP practitioner, and Gallup strength-based coach. He works with his clients to build self-awareness and unlock their true potential through various psychosomatic modalities and relational psychotherapy approaches. He is also a published Urdu poet, TEDx speaker, and a strong advocate of mental health, LGBT+ inclusion, and allyship. When not at his work desk, he can be seen exploring new places and doing rounds of poetry recitals.
Takeaways
Full Interview Transcript:
Welcome to the Hash Talks Mental Health Series podcast. I'm so so so happy to have you and having known your experience and involvement with the subject especially your work with the teenagers in helping to navigate them with their mental health issues. I'm very glad to have you on the show.
Haider Jasdan (00:01.222)
Hello.
Haider Jasdan (00:22.631)
Thank you, it's my pleasure. I'm very delighted to be talking to you about the subject, something which is very near and dear to me.
Nazneen Kachwala (00:32.144)
So Haider, I know that you have been attending conferences and working with different communities and groups and talking about this subject very often. I think it is a part of your work. I want to know that what is it about the subject that interests you so much and it makes you a constant learner of the subject.
Haider Jasdan (00:55.302)
Yeah. So I think before I share as to why I do what I do, I think there's a backstory, which was also part of my TEDx talk, which I spoke about. So I won't get into the details of it and one can check it out online. But the reason I'm so in tuned with the subject is because of my own
Haider Jasdan (01:24.006)
life experiences and for my own journey that I've had with mental health. So at the age of 15 is when I went through a dark phase of my life where I had to kind of navigate through a year long of depression. And when that happened, everyone around me were just surprised, including myself as to why this has happened because...
Haider Jasdan (01:53.382)
All through my childhood, I have been seen as a very obedient child, a good student in the school, never had any fights with anyone or never really was seen as a depressed child per se. But what happened through those growing up years is while I was seen as a ideal son,
Nazneen Kachwala (01:59.344)
Thank you.
Haider Jasdan (02:22.598)
or a student, I think somewhere I was also bottling up my emotions. Yeah, so any of the experiences which were happening around me, if I was not having enough space to express it, then I would just keep it to myself. And over the years, it just kept on bottling up till it reached a point when I was 15 years old and I had...
Haider Jasdan (02:49.062)
go through that phase of depression. And this is something I'm talking about almost some 25, 27 years back when we didn't even have enough conversations about mental health, enough support around us, or there was a stigma associated with mental wellness. And during that phase is when, of course, I had the right support system from my mom, from my teachers, the doctors that were there were quite helpful.
Haider Jasdan (03:18.854)
But it took a long period of time for me to even come out of it. And then when I came out of that phase, I realized I was having a very different perspective of life. And I realized that there needs to be a bigger purpose as to why I had to go through what I had to go through. And the life that I'm now living after that phase is far more meaningful. And that's something kind of got, you know,
Haider Jasdan (03:47.75)
me to solidify my purpose of life, which is I need to do something about the space where I can be that support system. I can create that kind of right awareness. And even if one life goes through less of struggle in finding the best version of themselves, then that's something which I
Haider Jasdan (04:15.302)
I was very, very passionate about. And since then, I think I've been always very forthcoming to share my story, to connect with people who are working in this space. But I realized that that just was not enough. And I had to also kind of get myself equipped with the right skills, with the right knowledge. Yeah. And therefore I started my journey in diving into psychotherapy as a space.
Haider Jasdan (04:44.87)
And I started to kind of build myself with all the right kind of tools and knowledge which is needed to do what it's needed to be the right mental health professional. Again, it's never a end journey, right? It's a constantly learning journey. So then every given point of time, if I see any opportunity to further amplify or uplift my skills.
Haider Jasdan (05:14.918)
then I just tap into any sort of resources or courses which are available. So that's really the reason why I do this work because it's so ingrained with my own life story and my own purpose.
Nazneen Kachwala (05:29.904)
Yeah. And when we were having this conversation earlier, when I spoke to you, you told me that you specifically work with a lot of teenagers nowadays. And then I also had some chance to go through your work available on social media, on LinkedIn and everywhere in the media domain. So I want to ask you that what are the problems which the teenagers these days are going through?
Nazneen Kachwala (05:55.792)
And what do you think, as per your experience, is the reason behind these problems? And how do you support these children or these teenagers to, as we said, navigate these problems?
Haider Jasdan (06:10.982)
Sure. So I think I'll break that into two parts. One is just to even understand the context in which today's youth is, yeah, in terms of the times that we are living in and what does that really have as an impact on the youth and therefore what are the kind of mental health challenges that they are going through. And then I'll break it into the second part in terms of...
Haider Jasdan (06:40.902)
why this is happening and what can be done in that space. So one is just to even understand that we as a society have been far more permissive with social media and the access to information. Then it was when I was growing up, as compared to that today,
Haider Jasdan (07:10.726)
there probably won't be any youth or a young adult or a child that would not have this access. Mostly, of course, there are underprivileged sections of the society which are still kind of navigating through, but it is far more penetrative this time where this access is available. And when that is available, it also kind of opens up the, as much as it opens up possibilities,
Haider Jasdan (07:38.662)
It also opens up a lot more challenges because then that means that the youth today is in a constantly, you know, access mode, which means that at any given point of time, they just don't want to miss out on anything that's happening out there. Yeah. What are my friends doing? What are my relatives doing? What is, what are the other young people doing? What's happening in the world? What's happening in my school? What?
Haider Jasdan (08:08.39)
what's the next thing that is new and upcoming. And when you have such an access to people's lives and stories and narratives, then you start comparing yourself as to how am I showing up in comparison to that? Do I have the right set of therefore knowledge? Do I have the right kind of income accessibility to me that I can live that kind of a lifestyle?
Haider Jasdan (08:36.486)
then you start comparing in terms of your scores and the kind of careers you want to take. So I think there is this constant self -validation that the youth is looking, therefore, from these conversations. And that just adds up to the anxiety. So I see a lot of my therapy clients who are from teenage groups, which they come with high anxiety. Yeah. And...
Haider Jasdan (09:03.206)
panic disorders, which is just not able to figure out how do I just kind of contain myself and go about with my life. There's also our family constructs have changed over the period of time, right? What earlier was where when a child will come home, there'll be at least a parent or a grandparent waiting for them at home. Now the child is coming to an empty house or to a nanny, yeah, because parents are working and...
Haider Jasdan (09:33.03)
And therefore, the amount of time that the family members are able to give to the child or the youth have kind of considerably reduced. And when that happens, then the child tries to keep themselves busy with all possible things. Then it could be getting into habits which are related to drug abuse. There could be over usage of electronic devices which could impact their.
Haider Jasdan (10:00.678)
sleep and eating patterns. There's no one to kind of monitor that. So that's another segment of issues that people are coming with. And then the third set of challenges, and of course there are more, but I'm broadly bucketing into these three, which is then the social construct of it, right? There is enough avenues for people to just pass on the opinion and walk out, right? Therefore the cyber bullying has kind of increased.
Haider Jasdan (10:30.342)
Everyone has an opinion about your life. Everyone has an opinion about what you should do, shouldn't do. The families have started to kind of put a lot more pressure on academics and they have an opinion on what kind of stream you should take or shouldn't take, what sort of career you should get into, not get into. And I see these are the broad categories of challenges that the youth is kind of currently.
Haider Jasdan (10:59.494)
tackling with. Yeah. The second part, which is therefore, what do you need to do with them? I think the most important one I find it is to take a step back and listen. I think we are so tuned to respond and react than just to step back and listen. And therefore, today there is not enough space for a constructive dialogue to happen.
Haider Jasdan (11:29.51)
Everyone is just kind of, you know, jumping in to give the right, in their mind, the right advice, or they are jumping in to respond. But barely people are taking that step back and being curious as to why this person is saying what they are saying, what is making them say this, what is making them do this, what is the backstory to this? Yeah, and I think that's the first step that I find it very, very valuable.
Haider Jasdan (11:57.926)
that one needs to do. And the second one is, I think, just enough quality time is something that I see which is missing, like I was sharing earlier. I don't know if we have enough rituals of what does it mean to spend time as a family? What does it mean to have no mobile phones at the dinner table? What does it mean to spend a Sunday playing a board game or stepping outdoors?
Haider Jasdan (12:25.03)
I think these sort of rituals have kind of reduced and maybe that's another step forward to kind of see how you address it. And thirdly, and I find this most importantly is to see if the loved ones, the friends, the family is not able to play an active role, then when and how you need to reach out to a mental health professional to get the right set of support and help for the...
Haider Jasdan (12:53.094)
or anyone who's going through those mental health challenges and see what is the ways you can kind of tap into that. So that's, I know it's a long answer to your question, but I just thought it was useful to kind of understand the context why this is happening and therefore what are possible avenues.
Nazneen Kachwala (13:11.184)
Right. So I think you just slightly tapped into that whenever there is, whenever the family or friends figure out that there is a deeper issue to a person or a child then he or she needs to find out when he needs to go to a professional help. So when is that time? When does a person himself or the family members or the friends or the peer group know that the person requires some additional help?
Haider Jasdan (13:41.638)
Yeah, yeah. I think your friends, your family, your near and dear ones, and even to some extent your school and college authorities play a very important role in providing that ecosystem for a young adult or a teenager to flourish. Yeah, and these are the people who become like those watchers.
Haider Jasdan (14:11.494)
for the signs and symptoms where, you know, they know that, okay, now this is something that needs medical or mental health, professional help. And I'll break this down into maybe a few parts of what kind of signs and symptoms one can look at. So one is just emotional symptoms, right? Which is look out for mood swings. Yeah, is there a...
Haider Jasdan (14:41.222)
There is a moment of joy and then the sudden drop and someone is feeling sad. In one moment they were cheerful, but then there is a sudden outburst of anger and there is therefore that modulation of or emotional regulation is kind of lacking. And you'll see this over a period of time. It may not happen in one or two interactions, but we'll see this inconsistently in various interactions. The second,
Haider Jasdan (15:10.918)
bit which I find it valuable is the behavioral symptoms, which is to see that if the person who was initially very active in physical activities or any form of activities which were keeping them busy, have they suddenly reduced those activities? Are they withdrawing from some of these activities?
Haider Jasdan (15:39.174)
the social groups, friends, family, whenever they used to meet, this person used to be very excited to come forward and meet, but now they just choose to withdraw themselves from those spaces and they would say, hey, I would like to just stay home or just stay indoors. Yeah, or they would show signs of the personal hygiene has started to lack, right? They would not wake up on time, go for shower.
Haider Jasdan (16:08.87)
regularly, they'll become a little bit clumsy in the way they keep their space around them and things like that. And the fourth one is, of course, within the behavioral symptoms is again, to watch out for sleeping and eating patterns. Is the person skipping meals or overeating? Is the person sleeping long hours or not getting enough sleep? What is happening there? And therefore,
Haider Jasdan (16:38.694)
Once you see emotional symptoms, you see behavioral symptoms. And the third one, I see this as more cognitive symptoms, which is the person would show fear and anxiety or panic in any situation that would just come up. And they wouldn't know how to respond to that or their ability to understand or decipher things or make decisions will kind of reduce. And they will kind of get a little clueless about what's going on.
Haider Jasdan (17:07.366)
I'm not able to understand it and not able to kind of make the right sort of decision. So these are some symptoms that at work people would see their productivity kind of going down or they would see absenteeism at work. People will not show up or they will suddenly go quiet at work and not have an opinion per se. So.
Haider Jasdan (17:32.614)
I see these as three buckets in which people can look out for what are some of the emotional symptoms, what are some behavioral symptoms, and what are some of the cognitive symptoms, which can be a good sign that first is, of course, you will reach out and have some conversation about it to understand it. But when you realize that this has been very persistent as a sign, then it's a good time for you to reach out to a mentor.
Nazneen Kachwala (18:01.456)
Yeah, okay. And if you would want to say to a teenager or to a young person that these are the things that you've got to be careful of, like these are the preventive measures, this can happen to you, but you be watchful, not to the, like we are not talking about the friends and the family, but the person himself or herself, if you want to tell it to them, what would you say?
Haider Jasdan (18:24.998)
Yeah, I think being a lot more mindful and being self -aware is very, very essential. You have to understand what's going on with me, to take a step back and say, hey, why am I feeling the way I'm feeling? And go a little deeper to say that, therefore, how is this getting experienced in my body?
Haider Jasdan (18:52.006)
Yeah, am I, is my hand shivering? Am I sweating? Yeah. So just becoming a little aware of the signs and symptoms happening with your body and, and with everything that you're thinking and feeling. Yeah. So just having that sort of a, awareness is, is valuable. And, and for that, therefore I would suggest people to kind of really invest into some of the mindfulness activities, whether it's yoga, meditation, going to the gym.
Haider Jasdan (19:22.054)
Yeah. The second one I think which is very valuable is to see if you have enough outlet for your emotions and expression. Yeah. Are you bottling up too much? And for that I do find value in getting yourself exposed to some hobbies and activities that you like. Yeah. Whether it is writing poetry, whether it is dance, music.
Nazneen Kachwala (19:43.728)
Okay.
Haider Jasdan (19:50.47)
Yeah, so I do also see sometimes parents overload the kids with go for 10 hobby classes, but the intent here is not to see that how the child's time is getting filled up and how are they learning new skills, but also to see if they have enough avenues to express through those skills. Yeah, so that's the second one which I find it very valuable to see on.
Nazneen Kachwala (20:01.84)
Yeah.
Haider Jasdan (20:18.79)
investing in some sort of activity which allows you to express better. The third one I find it valuable is just regulate your electronic media time, whether it's television, whether it's mobile phone, whether it's some of the social media apps, because there is enough and more.
Haider Jasdan (20:44.806)
going out on all these channels, yeah, with whatever happening in the world. If you just keep consuming, we'll realize that there's so much of global crisis and that will start impacting you. If you start spending a lot of time on your social media channels, you will start seeing what others are doing and their lifestyle and you will start comparing with that and that will start impacting you. So I think just regulating your device time. Therefore, I find it very valuable if people can build that discipline that...
Haider Jasdan (21:13.83)
by 10 o 'clock I want to go on bed, whether I'm watching news or I'm playing around with the game on my phone or on a social channel, and I'll do that. If it is difficult, I know that there are also avenues to regulate your social media channel times which are spent, right? So there are devices and apps which will also give you the sign and they will just block your access to those.
Haider Jasdan (21:43.302)
platform. So that way probably becomes left with no choice. But okay, now that the time is up, I need to kind of go off that. There are people who also practice detox, social media detox, just stay away from social channels for one week, 10 days, whatever. Yeah. And the fourth one I find valuable is to kind of start looking at what is the ecosystem around you. If you're seeing
Haider Jasdan (22:12.422)
your friends who are getting you to fit in by only consumption of a certain drug or alcohol and you know, hey, be a man and come join us for a drink or try this out or try that out. If you feel that there's a lot of social pressure in the groups that you are in, yeah, then take a step back to really realize that is this really healthy for me? Is this helping me?
Haider Jasdan (22:42.406)
or is this going to deteriorate me and maybe start evaluating what kind of social groups and communities you want to be part of. So I just find these are some four ways in which at least youth can be a little bit more mindful of how to kind of really keep their mental health sane and fine.
Nazneen Kachwala (23:02.32)
Let's say there is a person who is approaching someone for professional help. So what happens in a therapy session? How do I know in advance because this is a question, you know, there are trust issues and why would someone open up to a complete stranger, especially when it comes to youth and teenagers, if he or she is not able to talk about it to a friend, why would she talk
Nazneen Kachwala (23:31.984)
to a professional person. So what happens in a therapy room?
Haider Jasdan (23:36.966)
Yeah, and I get this question quite a bit of time when I'm working with young adults, especially if there are teenagers whose parents are referring you to a therapist. Yeah, and they are the ones who are paying for the therapy session. Then the child already has this preconceived notion that, my parents are paying for this, they are sending me to this therapist. That means the therapist is also going to be, you know, supporting my parents and
Haider Jasdan (24:06.662)
and working from their side. And therefore I find it very, very essential for the therapist to do a very strong contracting. When I say contracting, it's basically to really have a very open, honest dialogue on what therapy is and what is it not. And how much time that does the therapist, therapy would take for someone to kind of get to where they want to get to.
Haider Jasdan (24:34.95)
and the elements of confidentiality. Yeah, so I just find this kind of an open conversation that you are here in the therapy because you also want to come in. It's not because you've been pushed and forced and brought in here. There needs to be the acceptance and acknowledgement by the person, the client who's coming in that, okay, I need help and I'm willing to try this out. The second bit which I spoke about, which is confidentiality. And I think...
Haider Jasdan (25:04.518)
As a therapist, I find it very, very valuable to set those ethical guidelines as to whatever is happening between we, as in therapist and the client, stays in the therapy space and will not be leaked out and will not be used in a manner which will not be useful for the client goals. And many times, there are parents who would...
Haider Jasdan (25:32.358)
be very curious, right? In fact, educators also when they refer the child to a therapy, they are very curious as to what's going on. And, you know, they'll keep messaging and checking with me, hey, how's the therapy going? What's going on? What is my child saying? And I think I also find it very valuable, therefore, to have a very strong contracting with the with the person who's referring the child, that while I understand that the worry is very, very natural to be there, but also to
Haider Jasdan (26:02.438)
build that trusting relationship with the parent or the educator or whoever is referring that whatever I'm going to be working with the client is for their benefit. And I will need to respect that space. And you need to trust me that I'm going to do the work in the right spirit for the benefit of the client. And I may come back and give you a very high level view of what's going
Haider Jasdan (26:29.862)
And that's something that we can contract on what frequency I will come back to you. But I'm not getting into the specifics of what was said and why was it said and how was it said. With the client also, I do contract that the client's protection is utmost important to me. So if there are signs of self harm or suicide or any sort of extreme steps that I see that the
Haider Jasdan (26:59.686)
client might take, then I will put it forward to the client very early on that it's only during those times that I'll take your permission and I'll reach out to a loved one around you so that your safety is something that's taken care of. So that's the first part, which is just a very strong contracting is very useful. Then the second bit, which I think anyone who's coming into that space needs to...
Haider Jasdan (27:28.646)
build a very trusting relationship. So as a therapist, I need to offer them enough space to just bring anything that they want. Anything that is on their mind. And how do I offer that trusting, that non -judgmental space for the client to just open up anything that is meaningful for them. And in that process is when...
Haider Jasdan (27:56.07)
I would spend a lot of time in building the therapeutic relationship with my client, right? It's not like any other spaces where you go in, you talk about some of these symptoms and I quickly run into diagnosis and I'll give you a treatment. No, it doesn't happen like that because this client needs a very safe space to just open up and bring their selves fully. And that doesn't happen in the first one or two sessions. It takes a couple of sessions and each...
Haider Jasdan (28:24.838)
client has its different time frame as to when they will feel comfortable. So I just need to give an honor that space for the client. And the third bit, which I find it very valuable to keep in mind in the therapy is what are some of the therapeutic goals that we are co -creating. When I say co -creating, it's because it's very important that I'm not pushing down something to the client and say, hey, you need to work on this. But I also need to bring in the clients.
Haider Jasdan (28:54.662)
desires and goals that they want to work on. And then we both are mutually agreeing that, okay, this is what we are going to be working on. And that would take a couple of weeks, months, depending on what those goals are. And then have those regular checkpoints where you and your client as a therapist and the client can take a step back and see where they have arrived, what is happening in that space. And it's useful to...
Haider Jasdan (29:23.91)
keep your client aware as to what is the work that we are doing so that they don't see, this person is just sitting on that armchair and judging me or making evaluation, but just involve the client equally to say that what is coming to the awareness so far, where is the work that we are taking into. So those are the broad areas which I think I'll call out as to whoever is wondering what happens in the therapy. I hope these four aspects really.
Haider Jasdan (29:53.926)
help them understand that there is contracting, there is confidentiality and that piece, then there is a therapeutic relationship that gets formed and the fourth one is really to focus on specific goals which may evolve with time. It may not happen in the first few sessions, it will evolve with time and just to be patient enough to see where we are going with those goals.
Nazneen Kachwala (30:20.464)
Yeah, right. So Haider, as we know that all of us operate through our filters, right? And I'm sure therapists themselves have a lot of filters. So when you listen to a very new problem, how do you yourself or as a therapist, anyone could work to break those filters and be open to the conversation that is being put forward?
Haider Jasdan (30:45.158)
Yeah, it's a beautiful question. And I think I can go on and on for this, but because it's also very dear to me as a reflection and as I'm hearing that question. I think it's very, very important for the therapist themselves to have had their own journey. Yeah, you can't be sitting on a therapist chair and saying that,
Haider Jasdan (31:14.918)
I am not going to look at my darkness. I'm not going to look at my, you know.
Haider Jasdan (31:23.59)
unconscious process. I'm not going to look at my beliefs, but I'm going to help the other person get where they were they want to get. So I think the work really begins with yourself as a therapist and therefore I find it very valuable that every therapist needs a therapist as well. I have a therapist that I worked with for last four years. Yeah. And the reason we do that is because as much as
Haider Jasdan (31:52.166)
what we are trained in our education and skill building. In my case, it's TA psychotherapy, which I've been learning and there are different modalities where people go through. But as much as you're going through that process and it will tell you how to create that non -judgmental space, how do you keep your biases, your stereotypes aside and work with the client as is.
Haider Jasdan (32:20.102)
it is very bound to happen because we are also at the end of the day humans. Yeah. And our biases will pop up. Our experiences of the past will pop up. Our filters will start kind of showing up the way it is. And therefore it's very, very valuable to just build that awareness that if that is happening, that I'm catching hold of that. And I'm saying, okay, this is not my clients material. This is my material.
Haider Jasdan (32:45.286)
and I need to work on this. And then I go back into my therapy space. I go back into my supervision of the work that I do with my clients and then process that. And then if I see very consistently that my barriers are not becoming something that is holding me back, but rather than letting me fall in the trap of it consistently, then it's a sign for me to know that it's not gonna be helpful for my...
Haider Jasdan (33:15.142)
At the end of the day, the therapist needs to know that they are in that therapeutic relationship to aid your client, yeah, your client's need. And therefore, if you are going to start working on your needs and your processes and your beliefs in the therapy session with your client, then it's not helpful for the client. And therefore, I also find it very valuable for a therapist to even take a pause after the first few intake sessions and say that, okay, if this is what's happening.
Haider Jasdan (33:42.63)
then maybe this client is better suited to go to another therapist while I will work on my piece. Yeah, so I just find that awareness and that willingness for a therapist to take a step back and see what is it that they want to do with their material and work towards that.
Nazneen Kachwala (34:03.408)
Yeah. So Haider, you have evolved a lot in your journey, like professionally, if I say from being a microbiologist to being a founder of an NGO to being a theatre writer and then now working as a psychotherapist and organizational coach. And there's a lot of things you have done in your basket, right? So I'm sure spirituality has played some role throughout in your journey.
Nazneen Kachwala (34:32.368)
also as a psychotherapist and also as your evolution as a human. What is the role of spirituality to navigate mental health problems?
Haider Jasdan (34:42.822)
Yeah. I think, again, one needs to understand the cultural context in which we are talking about spirituality and spiritual practices. Yeah. And not to say what is a good practice, what is a bad practice. Any practice that is going to be helpful for the individual is a good practice. Yeah. So that's something that one needs to keep in mind because in different cultures, different
Nazneen Kachwala (35:03.76)
Yeah.
Haider Jasdan (35:11.014)
practices might be seen in a very, you know, very objective lens that, this is not right, or, that is not right. And one should only do this this way. Yeah, because so that's something which I find very valuable to keep in mind that the cultural context is very useful and anything that the end of the day is helping that individual move forward, then it's a good practice. That's the first ground rule of spirituality. I also find the
Haider Jasdan (35:40.39)
spiritual practices offer a very good framework for people to work with or build their selves because then it will tell you what sort of beliefs that you need to kind of work towards. It will tell you what sort of time and when and where you need to do what you need to do. There are groups and communities that would come together and do those practices together. So it also builds.
Haider Jasdan (36:07.846)
a lot of sense of belongingness and community spirit that you're not alone in this journey. And there are groups that are all of a similar belief that are moving forward. So that's another valuable aspect of spirituality that I find it. The fourth one I find it is just very simple rituals and reminders that spirituality offers, right? As to what I need to do when and how. And even if I'm doing it by myself alone,
Haider Jasdan (36:37.798)
it's enough if I'm going to others in a group, that's another way of looking at it. So that's something which I find it useful and most of the guiding principles of spirituality are very, very anchored on positive emotions, which is gratitude, forgiveness, compassion. And I find that is another valuable anchor for any human being to tap on that the more I am
Haider Jasdan (37:08.102)
grounded in spirituality, then I'm more grounded in positive emotions. And therefore, I keep very little room for negative emotions or disempowering emotions or beliefs which are not going to help me move forward. Yeah, so that's that's another aspect of spirituality that I find it very, very useful. Yeah, I think. And at the at the core of it, I just feel that our
Haider Jasdan (37:37.286)
Our breath is such a beautiful reminder that stays with us throughout.
Haider Jasdan (37:43.142)
ever since we were born till we will die, it is the only thing that will stay consistently with us. So what would it be for an individual to take a pause and just stay with their spirit, their breath, and acknowledge that they are a full -fledged, breathing human being, which has so much to gain from and so much to offer.
Nazneen Kachwala (37:58.512)
Yeah.
Nazneen Kachwala (38:12.24)
Beautiful. I think my last question to you for this conversation would be, do you have any content that you would want to suggest to our listeners, any digital content or any books for those people who are interested to learn more about mental health psychotherapy?
Haider Jasdan (38:35.59)
Sure. Yeah. Actually, I have a set of books here, which I thought I could just show. These are some books which I found it very valuable to read. It's Good Wives, Good Life by Wex King. Yeah. Again, a very beautiful read. It's a very simple read, but a beautiful one. I refer to this book for my... If someone who is a novice to psychotherapy, then...
Haider Jasdan (39:05.094)
This book on games people play by Eric Bird is another engaging read. Currently I'm reading this book and I'm loving it. It says things that you can see only when you slow down. Yeah. Yeah. This is again a very short read. It's not a very difficult one. It has short paras. So it just helps you imbibe it really beautifully. And...
Haider Jasdan (39:33.99)
The one which I think is my personal favorite that keeps me going back to my larger purpose is really the Ikki guy. Yeah, I find this again, a book which gives you a good guide towards finding your purpose and meaning. So these are some books which I find it valuable. And of course, then there are the books like the mindset, the flow, yeah, which is again, a good read.
Haider Jasdan (40:00.518)
On the digital content, I am a big fan of Brené Brown. Yeah, I listened to a lot of her videos and podcasts. So that's something which I would recommend. I follow a page called the Realize Empath on Instagram. Again, a beautiful page which gives you a short...
Haider Jasdan (40:28.39)
reminders and tips on a day -to -day basis as to what you can really easily integrate into your life. It's not a very rocket science one of concepts or practices. It's very simple little things. And I find that again, something very, very valuable. Yeah. So I think these are some resources that at least I tap into. And then of course there is a lot of information out there on Google. So one can really go through that.
Nazneen Kachwala (40:59.184)
Is there anything that you would want to add to this conversation Haider? Maybe one of your poems if you would like to recite.
Haider Jasdan (41:08.736)
sure. And I'll recite the one which I also recited yesterday when I was attending a National Youth Summit. So I write in largely Hindi and Urdu, so I'll recite that and then I'll give you a translation of what does that one really, it's a couplet. Yeah, so it says.
Nazneen Kachwala (41:28.432)
Yeah sure.
Haider Jasdan (41:36.842)
Don't trade with trade with those you need in your time. Have a beautiful Sunday in of life.
Haider Jasdan (41:54.694)
which says, yeah, the ones who really need your time, don't negotiate anything else with them. And the life which is full of Mondays, keep the hope alive for a beautiful Sunday. And I'm glad we are talking on a Sunday. So yeah.
Nazneen Kachwala (42:13.104)
Thank you so much, Haider, for your time. It was really wonderful and very, very insightful. I think we could go on and on with these questions, but I think we have time limitations and we will surely catch up one more time for one more session, maybe on the same subject, but we can maybe dive a little deeper in all of these aspects and do one more episode of this podcast. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks a lot.
Haider Jasdan (42:38.206)
Thank you so much. Thank you.
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